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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:27 am 
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Why do some people think it's OK for a prosecutor to declare that a man is guilty before the verdict, but not a Talkbacker?


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Dancer wrote:
Maybe bfranklin can show us?

The presumption of innocence predates the constitution and is not countered by it, therefore dominates.

You can read a very brief summary here http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Innocent+until+proven+guilty

The essence of the 6th amendment is most compatible and closest to the words "presumption of innocence" if it were included. Please review.

It is further punctuated by the 4th, 5th & 8th

If you are to argue that presumption of innocence is not in the constitution, then please explain everything from drug prohibition to Obamacare - which are also not in the constitution and per my research, violate the understanding of those who ratified the document.

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"Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor." - H.L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Vic wrote:
Why do some people think it's OK for a prosecutor to declare that a man is guilty before the verdict, but not a Talkbacker?

A prosecutor is an agent of the govt supporting their case. S/he doesn't determine guilt of innocence, only advocates an impartial jury for it.

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"Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor." - H.L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:22 pm 
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bfranklin wrote:
Vic wrote:
Why do some people think it's OK for a prosecutor to declare that a man is guilty before the verdict, but not a Talkbacker?

A prosecutor is an agent of the govt supporting their case. S/he doesn't determine guilt of innocence, only advocates an impartial jury for it.

Well, Talkbackers don't determine guilt or innocence either, so why is it OK for a prosecutor to decare a man guilty before the verdict, but not Talkbackers?


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:38 pm 
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Vic wrote:
so why is it OK for a prosecutor to decare a man guilty before the verdict, but not Talkbackers?
IMO someone without direct knowledge/agenda, would reserve judgement until better informed. JUDGE NOT, LEST YE BE JUDGED.

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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:40 pm 
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PublicByProxy wrote:
IMO someone without direct knowledge/agenda, would reserve judgement until better informed. JUDGE NOT, LEST YE BE JUDGED.

Well, that's a judgement call, and you don't know how well informed I may be about any case.
JUDGE NOT, LEST YE BE JUDGED.


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Vic wrote:
bfranklin wrote:
Vic wrote:
Why do some people think it's OK for a prosecutor to declare that a man is guilty before the verdict, but not a Talkbacker?

A prosecutor is an agent of the govt supporting their case. S/he doesn't determine guilt of innocence, only advocates an impartial jury for it.

Well, Talkbackers don't determine guilt or innocence either, so why is it OK for a prosecutor to decare a man guilty before the verdict, but not Talkbackers?

Prosecutors are not declaring anything, they are trying to convice.
Are talkbackers trying any cases or just spouting opinion with partial facts?
Or just supporting the govt position by default?

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"Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor." - H.L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:44 pm 
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bfranklin wrote:
Prosecutors are not declaring anything, they are trying to convice.

I'm not going to argue about the meaning of the words "declare" or "convince", so let's just say that a prosecutor can say a defendant is guilty, and so can I.

bfranklin wrote:
Are talkbackers trying any cases or just spouting opinion with partial facts?

I can only speak for myself. I'm stating an opinion based on knowing enough facts for me to form that opinion.

bfranklin wrote:
Or just supporting the govt position by default?

I'm sure everybody here knows I'm against gov't interference in our lives. However, I strongly support the gov't locking up, or preferably executing murderers.


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:01 pm 
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bfranklin wrote:
Or just supporting the govt position by default?

I'm sure everybody here knows I'm against gov't interference in our lives. However, I strongly support the gov't locking up, or preferably executing murderers.[/quote]

Upon conviction, that would be a valid position, however upon an arrest a statement like
Vic wrote:
Hang him.


Presumes a finding of guilt as well as passing sentence. No opportunity is given to hear a defense or present a case. So it appears that such statements support a govt accusation as all the proof required and is presumptuous.

There are many who have been arrested, even convicted of crimes such as capital murder who are later exonerated.

Arrest is not the end all be all of criminal proceedings.

Perhaps it has created such a discussion because it is not what we are about as a country founded on the place of people as sovereigns above the powers of govt.

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"Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor." - H.L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:47 pm 
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Vic wrote:
Well, Talkbackers don't determine guilt or innocence either, so why is it OK for a prosecutor to decare a man guilty before the verdict, but not Talkbackers?
You can 'declare' all you want. I'm just trying to comprehened how you came to a conclusion of guilt two days after.

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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:39 pm 
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PublicByProxy wrote:
I'm just trying to comprehened how you came to a conclusion of guilt two days after.

I didn't. I came to that conclusion one day after.


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Anyone declaring anything prior to having all the fact sis just declaring thier opinion. and they are like butt holes everyone has one. in the end it means nothing at this point in time ,just another opinion.

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"AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."- ~~ Norman Vincent Peale-______ ~~ COPS ARRIVE IN TIME TO DRAW CHALK LINES , ~~~IT'S UP TO YOU TO SEE THE OUTLINE ISN'T AROUND YOU ~~.


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Newspolice wrote:
Anyone declaring anything prior to having all the fact sis just declaring thier opinion. and they are like butt holes everyone has one. in the end it means nothing at this point in time ,just another opinion.

What I hate is when somebody posts a lengthy opinion they copied off some other site.


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:53 pm 
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Vic wrote:
What I hate is when somebody posts a lengthy opinion they copied off some other site.
Whats the difference between a lengthy opinion and a short sighted conclusion?

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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:00 am 
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PublicByProxy wrote:
Whats the difference between a lengthy opinion and a short sighted conclusion?

Their length?


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:30 am 
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Location: Summerdale, PA
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Quote:
An off-duty state trooper is accused of leaving the scene of a crash involving his personal car, according to Cornwall Borough police.

Joseph J. Christaldi, 50, crashed his 1999 Toyota Camry about 10:40 p.m. on Feb. 14 along Route 117 just west of the Route 72 north ramp, police said.

Investigators said his car crashed into a guiderail and several posts, causing extensive damage.

The collision tore off the right front of the car, which was found across the road, police said.

Investigators said Christaldi is charged with accidents involving damage to unattended vehicle or property.

Christaldi is a sergeant stationed at the York barracks, according to state police. He has been with the department since 1991.

Read more: http://www.wgal.com/news/susquehanna-valley/lebanon/Police-Trooper-crashes-personal-car-leaves-scene/-/9704034/19090436/-/18sl7/-/index.html#ixzz2M2oYa4j4


An example of why you may not want to believe the govt story right away.

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"Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor." - H.L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:22 pm 
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bfranklin wrote:
An example of why you may not want to believe the govt story right away.

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Vic wrote:
Newspolice wrote:
Anyone declaring anything prior to having all the fact sis just declaring thier opinion. and they are like butt holes everyone has one. in the end it means nothing at this point in time ,just another opinion.

What I hate is when somebody posts a lengthy opinion they copied off some other site.

~~I resemble that remark ~~

_________________
"AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."- ~~ Norman Vincent Peale-______ ~~ COPS ARRIVE IN TIME TO DRAW CHALK LINES , ~~~IT'S UP TO YOU TO SEE THE OUTLINE ISN'T AROUND YOU ~~.


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Pistorius faces life in prison in shooting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:19 pm 
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Newspolice wrote:
~~I resemble that remark ~~

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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